LoneEel
Calls people who disagree with him “the princess brigade” and “parasitic hypocrites” in the same post where he decries ad hominem attacks.

In that same post, he pledges his allegiance to logic, but he doesn’t seem to be very good at it. Exhibit A: Women don’t want to have sex, “Not as much as men, not by any stretch of the imagination, no.” (That statement is obviously way overgeneralized in and of itself, but we’ll overlook that.) Exhibit B: “I’m sorry but when you trade something for something, and you enjoy both the giving and the getting you’ve just ripped someone off.” (That statement isn’t logical in and of itself, either, but we’ll overlook that.) Conclusion: So, women only have sex with men to trade for something, because women don’t actually enjoy sex, because they’re only doing it to trade for something, because… That’s some circular damn logic.

Another logic fail: “Look at the wages of super models….If you seriously don’t see a culture obsessed with pleasing women in the hopes of sex…you’re simply not paying attention.” Yes, super models go to great lengths and are paid a lot to look pleasing to men…therefore society is based around pleasing women?

He complains that people are using strawmen when they engage his points and will probably accuse me of doing so even though I’ve quoted him directly. Complains that people refuse to debate him as if a Stumble Upon reviews page was designed for back-and-forth debates.

I mainly just feel really bad for this guy. According to this review of his, men only enter into relationships with women to get sex and women who enjoy that sex are morally reprehensible, because they are in the relationship for money (or something…something that involves making their boyfriends fight other men? What?). With that view of sex, it’s a sure bet he has never had and never will have a meaningful relationship, and that’s rather profoundly sad.

Prediction: I will probably not care enough to read the “review response” he’ll post on his blog about this because he is so insecure that he has to make sure the whole world knows that those people who put a red thumbs-down icon next to his name on the Internet are wrong!

Response.

Calls people who disagree with him “the princess brigade” and “parasitic hypocrites” in the same post where he decries ad hominem attacks.

No I call people who don’t agree with me people who don’t agree with me.

The princess brigade is a reference to the clique of women on stumble upon who simply don’t care about anything unless it helps them in their mission to exploit and foster a sexual double standard or unless it attacks that way of life.

They are deeply frustrated by dissenters like me.

They are the type of person that couldn’t spot Somalia on a map but can rattle off 20 colors of lipstick. The kind of stumblers who pepper their blogs with black and white photos of fashion models kissing on beaches selling the notion of sex appeal being the same as love.

The kind of stumbler who posts song lyrics and poetry with “love” as the topic, in an effort to convince the world that ultimately being sexy, or more specifically serving as retainer to a sexy girlfriend, is the pinnacle of masculine achievement.

The kind of women who thinks their sex appeal is their identity.

Also, they tend to be in exploitative relationships characterized by sexual bargaining, which is parasitic since they usually demand that the sexual experience they trade be good enough from their perspective for an even swap on its own, and they then accept gifts, favors, and access, provided by the person with whom they copulate.

None of this is spoken aloud of course except in the instance of “Friends with benefits” type of situation, allowing the woman to change the terms of this agreement at will without notice, while the man is expected “man up” and accept these shifting capricious demands without complaint.

Indeed the man is often expected to figure out these changes without notice or else he’s marked as being “insensitive”.

Given their usual attitude on prostitution this makes them hypocrites.

So, it’s not an insult, so much as shorthand.

Exhibit A: Women don’t want to have sex, “Not as much as men, not by any stretch of the imagination, no.” (That statement is obviously way overgeneralized in and of itself, but we’ll overlook that.)

Speaking in general does not equal an over generalization, if the claim fits the majority of the target group.

Do you deny that testosterone is the sex hormone for both genders?

Do you deny that men have more testosterone?

If we’re over looking it, why is it exhibit A?

Exhibit B: “I’m sorry but when you trade something for something, and you enjoy both the giving and the getting you’ve just ripped someone off.” (That statement isn’t logical in and of itself, either, but we’ll overlook that.)

How is it not logical? Throughout society a contract is defined by loss on both sides in exchange for gain on both sides.

If I were to charge you 5$ for the privilege of giving me 10$ would you consider that an exchange or a payment?

Conclusion: So, women only have sex with men to trade for something, because women don’t actually enjoy sex, because they’re only doing it to trade for something, because… That’s some circular damn logic.

Heh, actually I claim that in general women need (Yes I said need.) sex less often than men in large part do to hormonal differences.

At which point a woman has two choices, both exploitative of men.

Choice A is to simply refuse to have sex until the mood strikes her, keeping the man in a state of sexual tension which the woman may use to her advantage in any number of ways.

Of course the man’s sexual demands are not the woman’s responsibility by default. However by enforcing a monogamous rule in my opinion it becomes her responsibility.

Consider an analogy with food. If the man is hungry and asks her to make him a sandwich and she says she’d rather not just now. If we treated food like sex he would be required to fast until she felt like feeding him as acquiring food from another source would be “cheating” at which point he’d lose his house and potentially access to his children.

You may say well he can always masturbate or watch porn, but as suggested before these things ultimately do not help. Especially with the strong element of shame attached to masturbation.

Sure we pay lip service to it being healthy but again think of the food example. I can have a sandwich at work, can I masturbate with equal impunity?

Choice B is to engage in sex despite her mood and use that as grounds for some favor in return.

Again the demand of an exchange would fair except for two factors, the first being the demand that she be his only source of sexual fulfillment. (not merely orgasm)

The second being that his performance is still very much his responsibility despite her lack of current interest, since the very definition of what a man is in our society hinges in a big way on his ability to “please a woman.”

Take for example the man being “unable to perform.” Which is actually treated as illness to be cured. Imagine the outrage if I were to claim women who do not find me sexy are mentally ill.

Equal application of the same logic would demand male erectile dysfunction is a ‘failure’ on the part of the women, if she counts sexual ability as a skill.

In my view no one is failing here beyond making an unrealistic demand for sexual exclusivity.

I say this because I assure you, with a different woman of his choosing he would find himself able to ‘perform’ on both the ED front and the skill front as what defines sexual skill varies from woman to woman.

Monogamy is so unnatural for a man that in order for us to functional sexually within its confines long term we must be drugged, to the tune of 1.9bn in global sales as of 2004. (I couldn’t find recent global figures. Feel free to correct me.)

That doesn’t appear circular to me at all.

Yes, super models go to great lengths and are paid a lot to look pleasing to men…therefore society is based around pleasing women?

Great lengths? Nothing a super model does warrants the level of pay from an effort vs reward perspective. Nothing.

A Typical EMT, fireman, or nurse, CLEARLY works harder.

Models aren’t being paid to please men they are being paid to tease men. They are there to increase sexual tension(tease), not abate it(please). They are there to force association between a product or service and the promise of sexual satisfaction.

Media and the social contract allows for willful teasing at a distance. In our evolutionary past teasing was almost instantly followed by pleasing since the women could not apply teasing indiscriminately to multiple men, at least until the invention of organized dance.

Men are genetically programmed to pay for this pleasing service with their very lives if necessary because our bodies think its going to mean the difference between dieing childless and perpetuating our genes.

Throwing a TV and a sales pitch between the man and the object of pleasure quote obviously wrecks havoc with the mind. Especially when the object of that pleasure is distorting reality.

Do women in TV advertisements aimed at men actually look or act that way in real life?

He complains that people are using strawmen when they engage his points and will probably accuse me of doing so even though I’ve quoted him directly.

You’re right. You quoted me directly and then inserted a completely different statement, and then attacked the new statement. *shrugs* If the shoe fits.

Complains that people refuse to debate him as if a Stumble Upon reviews page was designed for back-and-forth debates.

Yet people like you feel the need to post what amounts to first round of debate as a public one way review.

You do so to avoid having your point shredded where you put it. Precisely the opposite of what I do with my assertions.

You find someone who’s argument I have blocked in ANY forum where I have control, and I’ll give you 1000$. Easy to say because I haven’t. It’s much more fun for me to publicize your intellectual flailing.

You could always have messaged me, at which point we could have had a debate somewhere. I have a blog, or you could make a blog, or we could use any one of the dozen or so debate sites.

I mainly just feel really bad for this guy.

Compassion is awesome, but needless in this case. My only problem is fiscal. Emotionally speaking I’m pretty content, other than being poor.

According to this review of his, men only enter into relationships with women to get sex and women who enjoy that sex are morally reprehensible, because they are in the relationship for money

Remember that straw man we were talking about?

Men enter relationships to get their needs met, but monogamy forces them to prioritize. Super model like beauty is far more rare than a good personality and all the other traits a person requires to attain fulfillment.

Consider that monogamy is defined by sexual exclusivity alone, I’m allowed to get all other fulfillment outside the relationship. Which means the only trait I actually have to select for when selecting a mate is sex.

This is done because women and the state enforce monogamy. It is a well established social truth that men left to their own devices would carry out their genetic programming with gusto and inseminate as many women as physically possible.

If you say that self discipline is demanded and those atavistic impulses should be suppressed for the good of society, I agree, but then why do you forget this admonition and demand systematic emotional coddling of your atavistic genetically inspired jealousy?

women who enjoy that sex are morally reprehensible

I never said anything of the kind. Where are those direct quotes you were talking about?

because they are in the relationship for money

Similar to the trap described above forcing men to select for sex, wealth is the most rare trait of potential male mates, sex being of lesser importance to women for the previously explained hormonal difference.

With that view of sex, it’s a sure bet he has never had and never will have a meaningful relationship, and that’s rather profoundly sad.

Even if that were true, which is isn’t, would it have any impact on the truthfulness of my claims? Also note you just attempted to shame all men into entering a monogamous relationship. But if relationships are so awesome, healthy, and natural, would you need to use such a tactic?

Over 90% of American women get married at some point, and the divorce rate stays at about 50%. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Adultery rates paint an even grimmer picture.

I will probably not care enough to read the “review response” he’ll post on his blog

As you like. I don’t imagine you do much caring generally. Apathy is treated as a virtue in our society.

because he is so insecure that he has to make sure the whole world know..

Heh, that sentence being delivered as a public review.

that those people who put a red thumbs-down icon next to his name on the Internet are wrong!

I don’t mind if people don’t like me, I just want them to not like me for what I actually am saying, rather than running with a myth as you clearly have.

I respond to reviews to clarify my position where misunderstood, and to strengthen it when flaws are found, not to punish or shame dissenters. I’ve said time and again that the people I’m debating don’t matter to me. It’s future readers I’m interested in. I’m attacking meme sets, beliefs, behaviors, and ideas, not people.

You would probably, given your claims, be rather shocked at the level of diversity among my friends, on and offline. I don’t require total agreement, all I require is a willingness to defend a position.

Perhaps it would also shock you to know that my two best friends are both married. I’m always annoying them with my monogamy-hate over drinks on the weekend.

This does not impact our friendship in a negative way at all, indeed I would say they are affirmed by it, hearing one or the other express their affection for the situation.

I’m sure my lectures also alert them to the real causes of budding relationship problems since they can see the source of the problem being something other than a personal failing on their part or the part of the other.

Perhaps it is you who are sad. but as I said even if that were the case, it would have no impact on your claims, merely your motivations.

Still at it, I see.

In the past, I would have resorted to mockery and disregard. Actually, there’s a fair chance that I’ll do that anyway, but what the hell, I’ll engage you on your own terms for once.

Riddle me this, Innomen: lesbians and gay dudes. You’ve dutifully rendered them invisible with your “women” and “men” categories, by which you mean straight women and straight men. I’m calling you out. How does same-sex desire fit into the fascinating world you seem to live in?

Go on, look it up in your evo-psych handbook. Especially lesbians. I’m already trembling in anticipation.

Well as shocking as this may be to you I don’t consider gay people a separate species. They are just people with different sexual interests from the ‘norm’ of their gender.

Since I tend to comment on the general nature of society, general being defined by majorities, and heterosexual people still out numbering homosexuals, and the fact that many of the comments I’ve made do not require a sexual target, I say most of it applies to a large portion of the people in question.

For example we’ve all see the fashionable ‘bi’ girl that will make out in the bar for attention and free drinks. Just as I’m sure you have gay men fighting one another over a mate. Homosexual people engage in pretty much any activity good and bad heterosexual people engage in.

I think your question in fact betrays a level of bigotry.

Take the phrase “Especially lesbians” for example. What, lesbians are incapable of using their sex appeal for profit? I don’t know if you’re aware of this but lesbians look just like women. And they aren’t required to tattoo an L on their forehead or anything. So its no harder for them should they so choose to v-cut their way into a job than it would be for a heterosexual clone of themselves to do so.

The question seems moot.

On a personal note the girl I lost my virginity to was bi, which got me thinking about monogamy as it relates to bisexuals, it seemed unfair that society made them pick when they equally needed both.

That got me thinking about what is now called polyamory. I remember thinking, “It’s hard enough finding all the stuff you want in a mate when you just want a girl.” I still think that way, though I’ve expanded it a bit.

Enforced monogamy is unfair to everyone.

Hope this answers your question.

Um, WHAT?! “Women of nearly all stripe get to use sex as a bargaining chip to get ahead in virtually any situation that involves men. From sexual denial correcting a disobedient boyfriend, to sexual attraction landing a husband-based career replacement if not a cush sit there and look pretty job, trade for sex is a huge huge advantage men simply don’t have.”

So women don’t want to have sex? Is that why they wouldn’t accept sex as a form of bribery? I’m not understanding your logic. You have the MOST jaded view of women if you think we’re using our sexuality primarily to get ahead in life. Some women act this way, but when you make sweeping generalizations about women this way you’re in sexist territory.

Response.

So women don’t want to have sex?

Not as much as men, not by any stretch of the imagination, no.

Is that why they wouldn’t accept sex as a form of bribery?

I’m sure there are isolated situations where that may occur but generally I don’t see being able to bribe women with sex for two reasons, one the woman in question has integrity and can’t be bribed in general, (though I believe anyone has a price, you just have to dig) or two she’s not interested in sex enough to offset the risk.

Sex for women by and large is an emotional thing more than a physical one. This is not to say that a woman doesn’t get as hungry for straight physical stimulation as a man can, I’m just saying its exceedingly rare generally.

As I’ve offered in other replies, testosterone is the sex hormone in both genders, and clearly men have more. Complain to the manufacturer. *shrugs*

You have the MOST jaded view of women if you think we’re using our sexuality primarily to get ahead in life.

Like I explained just a moment ago in another review, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying is that the majority of straight female sex includes an element of personal advancement beyond immediate pleasure and that women cultivate those situations. Which is only rational, but not entirely ethical in my view.

Some women act this way, but when you make sweeping generalizations about women this way you’re in sexist territory.

I know what you mean but you have to agree that by that logic saying that women have a vagina could be seen as sexist.

There are general difference between the genders, most especially in a society that has such rigid social training based on gender. Just walk down the toy isle to see what I mean. We train them for gender roles before they can speak, and that training never stops. That has consequences.

Aaarghh! I’m torn here because on the one hand I like Innomen’s pages immensely, but on the other hand he comes over as a right misogynist git. I think he’s had some bad experiences which have rather skewed his judgement. Also, this is the Internet, where you can say what you like. Even so, his assertion that most women use sex mainly as a bargaining tool has its corollary in the men are only after one thing mantra that most girls hear from an early age. Neither are particularly true, and both are poisonous. They have horrible effects on attitudes toward the opposite sex. Other than that (could go on but won’t), Innomen has a really great collection of spiky reviews on his SU page. Visit at your peril!

Response.

I agree with most of this review, strongly, and I thank the author for the generous compliments. But the point of this post is not to bask in the warm glow of adoration.

he comes over as a right misogynist git. I think he’s had some bad experiences which have rather skewed his judgement

My response is the same as it’s always been, find a spot where you feel my judgment is wrong, and I’ll demonstrate my evidence for that judgment. If you can attack my reason, I will change my mind. This is not dogma, it is a conclusion.

No one ever tries defends themselves, they just call me names leave hate mail and consider the matter closed. Which to me comes across as sulking childish pouting.

his assertion that most women use sex mainly as a bargaining tool

I think this needs to be explored, for one let me note that sex can have multiple purposes. My assertion would probably be better phrased “most heterosexual sex contains a bargaining advantage for the woman.” From there I don’t see it as too much of a stretch to say that women seek such situations.

I am not saying that all women wake up with a checklist of how to bed their way into a better tomorrow, I’m just saying that quite rationally they use what is available to them and excluding that advantage on principal is rare.

Again that’s for the rest of the review, and may I simply suggest you read through my Review Replies before you come to a sweeping negative judgment.

More of the same really.

Hmmm. I’m trying not to rant and I really don’t want you to spam my review page, as though I’ve never read anything politically charged before. OK, firstly, in response (?) to part of a young woman’s intro – the words “Guys, try to be less creepy” – you thumbed her pages down and wrote: “Oh please. You have a vagina and this is the Internet. Get over it” and then more of that stuff about sexual exchange. Seriously Innomen. We don’t know her. She might have been inundated with creepy shit online and elsewhere. The fact that she’s not got a bag over her head in her avatar doesn’t really justify that kind of behaviour. Perhaps she hasn’t received such messages from females. Just a thought.

Furthermore, and part of me – a large part – wonders why the hell I’m bothering, you know, sometimes men and women actually experience sexual activity with each other because they like it. Both of them. That includes the woman. Sometimes, dare I say, often, the woman is not thinking about material gain during these activities or as a precursor to them. I’m dead serious. Sometimes they are attracted by his humour, his kindness, wit, intelligence, parental competence, or/and his understanding. More than stereotypical facial and body features. To say otherwise is insulting, very. Women have nerve endings, so I don’t get the idea that for women, consensual sexual experience is only a means to an end. Maybe I inhabit a different culture altogether.

Also, if sex is just a ‘deal’, women giving men sexual satisfaction in exchange for other things, I don’t know where that leaves lesbians.

Couldn’t come up with anything substantive could you. The haters never do. I always find intense satisfaction that the best you people can come up with is name calling and undefended claims.

I’m not talking about defenses I reject, I’m talking about a complete lack of defense, as if your word alone is sufficient.

No one, ever, “steps to me” in this regard. I have to assume its because they are convinced they would fail.

Don’t worry, I typically don’t respond to reviews with reviews. What I do is post my responses to my external blog and then link the people (when they don’t block me) to the post so they have an opportunity to defend themselves.

Very few do.

Especially when the ground is so well covered as this.

You may think of me as a misogynist or whatever, but I know I’m not and if you don’t agree it’s because you refuse to actually explore the matter. I’d have no more luck convincing you otherwise than atheists have talking people out of god.

Take this review for example.

http://hazelfo.stumbleupon.com/review/32329711/

The best she could come up with is to simply mistake my position entirely, which is clearly intentional given its needlessly exaggerated and inflammatory nature, and tag me as an idiot and an asshole.

Which I may very well be, but that isn’t a defense of her contentions now is it. None of you ever attack my ideas, you just attack me and call it a day.

The only thing that varies is your basic approach.

The feigned apathy, the pretend objectivity (that’s yours), the screaming sexual hissy fit, etc.

All designed to anger me or humiliate me, but never ever designed to refute me.

And that will never fail to make me smile.

As to your message specifically…

Seriously Innomen. We don’t know her.

We can infer things about her from her claims and behavior.

She might have been inundated with creepy shit online and elsewhere.

This is the Internet, a facet of the real world where, shock and surprise, consequences follow actions. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

Do you honestly think these “creepy” guys are going to see that snide message and think it applies to them? You aren’t paying attention to human nature. There is a whole subclass of women that like the implications of being stalked.

Being stalked means so many people like (Read want to mount) you so much that some of them are literally driven crazy by it. It’s a form of narcissistic delusion. Real stalking victims vanish in the face of it, they don’t post snide little remarks in their review.

This may be difficult for you to hear, but my position is a synthesis of numerous hypotheses arrived at after consideration of evidence. Evidence more reliable than you’re apt to discover given your total lack of desire to confront me logically.

The fact that she’s not got a bag over her head in her avatar doesn’t really justify that kind of behaviour.

Actually as exaggerated and straw-man as that is, the root of it is true, she is partially responsible. Her avatar and so many women’s avatars are clearly designed to be flattering, which in our culture means sexually appealing.

Women tolerate that for profit and ease because we live in a sexist society that tells women being a sex object is their only option. My problem is when women complain about the consequences of running with it.

As a side note most women eventually figure out that there is more to them than sex, but many wake up after they’ve been trapped in a worthless marriage and the dissonance is so strong it results in a 50% divorce rate.

I’m tired of women complaining about living in a sexist society and then playing the victim princess card when the going gets tough. You don’t get to have it both ways without being a hypocrite.

Perhaps she hasn’t received such messages from females. Just a thought.

Perhaps she hasn’t received them from men either, or she deep down likes the attention because it makes her a success as a women which in this society as I said that means a success at being a desired sex object.

Sometimes, dare I say, often, the woman is not thinking about material gain during these activities or as a precursor to them.

Yeah and even you just said merely “sometimes.” Sarcasm aside I think we both know that is not the case in the majority of instances. Do you honestly think the majority of wives and girlfriends in this country are totally sexually satisfied? Do you honestly think the majority are not at least occasionally engaging in maintenance sex?

Before you answer, dig around in divorce proceedings. If you care about evidence.

And even if you were right, the point falls back to my initial one. If they are enjoying it and gaining ANYTHING else they are a hypocrite if they actually claim zero whore status. I ask you, if you get something for giving away sex other than an orgasm, what are you? Lucky? No, we have a word for it, and the deep irony is that women are the quickest to use it.

Women take getting stuff from men for granted. They literally think nothing of getting dinner paid for, getting free rides, and favors uncounted. Why? Because men are trained since grade school you give women what they want. From our mothers (not mine actually but she is very clearly an exception) to our teachers to finally our girlfriends and wives. Later we begin to realize why, we please them or we begin to starve to death sexually.

And we are told this is normal, this is love, this is funny, this is just how it is, and if you have a problem with it, well you must be a woman hating pedophile moron social heretic, the lowest of the low, a mentally ill damaged goods loser, fat and ugly and justifiably hated living in your parents basement selling dog porn. Yes?

Sometimes they are attracted by his humour, his kindness, wit, intelligence, parental competence, or/and his understanding.

Parental competence. See? Like I said, control from the cradle. You need to read my review response…

http://underlore.com/TBA/?p=285

But yet no matter what attracts them they will still get favors for sex that they wanted. I don’t care what makes them enjoy it. Also the vast majority of them will instantly, as a matter of course, set down two sets of rules, the first being the socially basic rules for gender roles. Stuff like “you don’t get to sleep with anyone else.” The second set being specific to the girl in question which can sometimes include revocation of basic rules as in the case of open relationships.

The rules for men are extremely complicated and replete with double standards. To the point to where its supposed to be funny. What are the general rules for women? Provide sex, so long as he behaves. The rest is a toss up.

A boyfriend of husband is defined by his constant service, a girlfriend or wife is defined by a conditional sexual permit effectively, which men are expected to pay for in cash, time, and most importantly obedience.

This is the nature of the game, and you all bloody well know it. I’m just stating it for the record because its going to end. As silly as you think it is, the Gynoids (female sex bots) are coming and they are going to break this sexual monopoly, this hydraulic despotism that has super glued a padded yoke around the necks of an entire gender.

Obviously I’m not speaking globally, I’m aware of the fundamentalist Muslim nations and the situation in Africa. But I am speaking about the global trend. The blue eye brown eye experiment shows clearly that the former oppressed become oppressors with shocking ease. The pendulum always swings both ways until the game itself dies.

And as you may have noticed, I don’t care if you are insulted because as I’ve explained, I have good reason to believe it is the truth.

In fact a large number of women agree with me, the ones that actually contribute and struggle to be seen as something more than a vapid whiny sex in the city clone. The ones that dislike having to hide the fact that they are beautiful because of the feeding frenzy brought on by that beauty which is driven by the monopoly I spoke of. The ones who recognize that it is natural for all mammalian males to desire multiple mates and recognize the unfairness of demanding that men curb this basic genetic imperative at the same time as being coddled for their version of the same.

The desire to tie a man down and get the very most out of him in exchange for sex is every bit as much a genetic imperative as the male desire to fire and forget. The only reason the female desire is socially subsidized is because it is a great way to utterly dominate a huge populace from a single room.

There is a reason paying a woman to blow you is illegal while paying a woman to blow you and let you film it for sale is legal. There is a reason “every kiss begins with Kay.” There is a reason every girl crazy bout a sharp dressed man. There is a reason the worst thing a woman can come up with when trying to insult another woman is slut or whore. There is a reason the worst thing you can call a boy in school is fag.

Lady, you have been co opted, and the cost of freedom is paying your own way and learning how to fucking share. You don’t like it? Then stock up on pepper spray and learn you use the ignore button because so long as sex is the end all be all of society, and sexual performance and acquisition are the most important and simultaneously most soul crushing activities a man can engage in, there will be nasty consequences.

Pick any of my points and attempt to present logical counter point, or simply walk away. I suspect you’ll choose the latter, or simply repeat yourself and insult me while offering no new data. Though I sincerely hope I’m wrong.

Update:

“Real stalking victims vanish in the face of it, they don’t post snide little remarks in their review.” Really? Good job checking that all-important ‘evidence’ there.

It’s called an EPO or emergency protective order, in my state. When someone is afraid of a stalker they want them to go away, they tend not to put an add in the paper talking smack. Need I really prove that? I mean was there any doubt?

I’m going to have a hard time finding a reputable study exploring whether or not people like having their face smashed with a brick also.

This was a fun one. Took a couple hours.

hazelfo rated 23 hours ago bullshit, misogynist, idiot, asshole
He actually thinks that there is institutionalized sexism against men, and that women/feminists control society and make laws.

He also thinks that women are to blame for being raped, that all women manipulate men with sex, that women accuse innocent men of rape all the time, and that being the victims of sexual violence and being prostituted somehow makes women the powerful ones. (No, giving men boners doesn’t translate into actual power or influence.)

Oh, and men have an “innate need for sex” and women are terrible for not giving in to any and all demands for it. Boo hoo.

Misogynist all around, yet vehemently denies it (because dammit, he’s a nice guy and women should have sex with him!) I have instantly lost all respect for everyone who thumbs him up.

Plus he left a link on my page that pretty much proves everything I just said. And by the way, Innomen, I’m not going to let you use my review page to link to your reprehensible and blinded views on women. Blocked

My responses. Note her tags. Everyone loves to call names.

He actually thinks that there is institutionalized sexism against men, and that women/feminists control society…

I think institutions take advantage of the situation and have done so for generations, so yes, sorta. I also think that a woman’s word is law in many ways, for example accusations of sexual harassment and assault. Regardless of court findings these accusations destroy lives even if completely unfounded.

Further, women get to choose who gets to keep their children from conception onward. Abortion, for example, and the fact that custody case findings overwhelmingly favor women.

He also thinks that women are to blame for being raped

No, but I think many women make irresponsible choices and put themselves in radically dangerous situations over and over attempting to bed their way into a comfortable life while having fun at the same time and then unfairly act shocked when hanging out with drunks and psychopaths causes them to wake up with a vague memory of having done something they regret with a frat boy who liked it rough enough to leave bruises and cause fear.

This is not a justification for rape, but consider what you would say if a guy walked around south central dressed like a Nazi yelling “I hate n%@@#$” and got shot. Would you say he was utterly blameless? No.

I simply hold rape to the same standards as all crime. Our society demands that rape have some special mystique, I respectfully reject that idea because I strongly believe in equal protection under the law.

Most women don’t want equality, they was the upper hand. And sometimes the rape card is the best or only way to get it.

(he thinks) that women/feminists control society and make laws.

What I actually think is that women get to control men in very substantial and multifaceted ways. Consider the fact that a female intern got a president impeached. Political figures have lost their careers thanks to sexual antics and allegations is a cliché it occurs so often.

I refuse to believe that this power goes unabused. So in an indirect way, yes, I do somewhat believe that women make social policy. Further womens’ groups exist while effectively mens’ groups do not, making women more powerful as a voting block from the local level on up.

As to controlling society, they most certainly they do. They choose who breeds and who doesn’t. They choose what it is to be a man by selecting and rejecting father figures for “their” children. And they obviously get to define what it is to be a mother. And I’m not alone, maybe you’ve heard a few of these. The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world. He who can destroy a thing controls a thing. Power over subsistence is power over the will.

“The family” is all important in our society and the definition of that family basically boils down to keeping a wife happy so you retain access to your job and children. Watch the television and tell me you don’t see that message in 8 of every 10 seconds.

(he thinks)that all women manipulate men with sex

98% of women get married at some point, how many of those profited in some way or applied sexual pressure to achieve a behavioral goal?

Yeah, a majority of women manipulate men with sex. How dare I shamelessly state a fact.

(he thinks)that women accuse innocent men of rape all the time

When you go out drinking every single weekend and let random guys get you drunk, take you to parties, and feed you pills, and then claim rape when you wake up with very little memory of screwing some guy. Yeah. This happens A LOT.

That’s not to mention the hundreds of psychopathic vindictive women out there, and the regularity of men being released from prison after lengthy stays exonerated by new DNA evidence. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg. Rape is the ultimate trump card, with a single phone call you can destroy a life, and again I refuse to believe that power that only women have, goes unabused.

I constantly get called things I’m not when I piss off princesses, and I’m just some guy on the Internet. Hell hath no fury, yes?

and that being the victims of sexual violence … makes women the powerful ones

Never claimed that. But female victims of sexual violence do get disproportional attention, especially if they are young and attractive. News flash, the majority of rape victims are men, and yes I count the poor kids that got 10 years for selling a bag of grass to an undercover cop.

No one deserves rape, NO ONE. And I dare say the typical rape experience of a man is far worse than that of a woman. Especially when you consider that female rape can be accomplished with drugs and accompany a severely reduced memory of the event. I don’t see a lot of “date rape” in prison. I won’t even elaborate on the social pressure applied to men when they find themselves raped or physically abused/intimidated by a woman. Contrary to popular opinion a penis does not make you the incredible hulk.

being prostituted somehow makes women the powerful ones.

When The Company is your pimp, hell yeah it makes you powerful. We have a whole culture built around pleasing women as a matter of course. “The American Dream” is largely a male labor powered 1950s fantasy. Go to school, get a job raise a family, and as I said women control that last step, utterly they therefor control men’s lives. We routinely refer to a person’s family status as their life. Any time a man asserts dominance in a domestic setting he runs the risk of being called a chauvinist.

A male centered household is so socially discouraged these days it’s considered either a religious throw back or a sexual deviation, and it is universally considered something to be grudgingly tolerated at best. A female driven household on the other hand is completely accepted, and indeed the subject of much humor.

Walk around a typical middle class American household and ask who picked out what and tally the number of rooms where the man made equal or more choices. Typically a man gets one or two rooms and those rooms are hidden away as if male control is a dirty little secret.

The whole consume culture is primarily about sex related sale. Look at the wages of super models. Look at the wages of sexy singers. Look at the topics of chart topping songs. Look at the plots of top grossing movies and highest rated shows.

If you seriously don’t see a culture obsessed with pleasing women in the hopes of sex or as simply an accepted social norm, you’re simply not paying attention.

No, giving men boners doesn’t translate into actual power or influence.

Granted being hot doesn’t get you the presidency, but it gets you something more valuable, power over the homes and lives of people who do have power. Or are you going to tell me all wives are powerless little sex slaves locked away under the thumb of brutal male hegemony.

Please. Power behind the throne is real power. If you think otherwise you’ve ignored history.

Oh, and men have an “innate need for sex”

Well duh. We produce millions of sperm a day, and we’re saturated with enough testosterone to physically mutate our bodies. Keep in mind that testosterone is the sex hormone for both genders. By definition we experience a level of sexual need you physically can’t approach. It can take a man as little as a minute to impregnate a woman, but it takes a woman months to produce a child, and our sex drives reflect that disparity.

The equivalent of male sexual need (which is a deeply emotional thing written into our genes again look at all art/song/film to find constant male begging) would be the female need for children and I think you would agree that women have the right to bear them, yes? That this is a physical need, and a human right, yes?

You trivialize the sexual needs of men because to do otherwise is to admit your hydraulic despotism and your callous and brutally self serving attitude.

and women are terrible for not giving in to any and all demands for it. Boo hoo.

You had to exaggerate because you know that my actual claim is valid. Of course I don’t believe that women should be forced to be sperm receptacles to any and all donors, but nor should their jealous desire to keep a man all to themselves because of the above explained genetic difference be translated into state enforced social policy.

Look at the consequences men endure when they stray from the monogamous picture. They lose their entire lives, sometimes literally, when they are killed by jealous lovers. The majority of murders can be traced to monogamy issues either directly or indirectly.

And as for the “boo hoo” read above about trivializing.

Misogynist all around, yet vehemently denies it (because dammit, he’s a nice guy and women should have sex with him!)

You are a seasoned pro with the bait and switch. Yes I do believe I’m a nice guy. And of course I believe women should have sex with me, and as hard as this may be to believe, some women agree. What’s wrong with that? It actually has very little to do with my beliefs.

It’s not like I’m some sex addicted mental case, who is unable to keep it in his pants and there for wants the whole culture to be a harem. I was monogamous with every girlfriend I’ve ever had, my relationships usually last at least a year. I share that also to dispel the notion that my position derives from some sort of frantic bitter need for sex.

I consider monogamy a point of compromise. My problem is getting no credit for it, as if I’m supposed to accept the trade “well I won’t fuck anyone else either” as even. Which it isn’t. Women have a strong genetic disposition towards monogamy, men do not. So trading adherence to the doctrine is as lop sides as a traditional Muslim and an alcoholic both swearing off booze. The Muslim was going to do it anyway, so its not a trade.

Sure I could use more sex. Very few men are totally sexually sated in the long term. Indeed I’d say almost none, (of those who have sex drives) given the appetite demonstrated by certain historic males, but I’m not so hard up to as to let it distort my whole world view. I’ve believed as I have for a very long time, even when I was getting sex daily believe it or not.

And yes I deny hating women, strongly. You read my complete response to that claim. You show me a single instance of hate I’ve made for women. Disapproval of social structure does not translate into bigotry. Or did Gandhi just hate the English?

Does it look like I care what any of you think? Seriously? If I actually hated women I’d make it clear. As I make clear my hatred of the rich for example. And I DEEPLY hate people who spank their children, whom I could probably torture as a career were I to let my atavistic impulses run unrestricted by my ethics. I don’t consider those who spank children to even be living beings. They deserve less care and social protection than poison ivy.

No, trust me, you utterly fail to grasp what hatred even is. Doubly so if you think my position on women is even remotely related to it.

I hate certain behaviors, and I hate certain ideas. Some of those ideas and behaviors do disproportionately occur in women, but that does not make me hate them on a personal or general level any more than I hate blacks or soccer fans, which is to say, not at all. Some soccer fans are assholes, not all. Likewise, some women are spoiled little barbisites with the ethical maturity of a pit viper, but not all.

The majority of women are good and decent people, like the rest of us, equally victimized by our teen sex stick figure worshiping culture. Maybe a little ignorant from my perspective, but women hardly have a monopoly on that.

Plus he left a link on my page that pretty much proves everything I just said.

http://underlore.com/TBA/?p=32 This is the link she mentions. It is called “Masculism, Cynicism, and Woman Hating.”

It doesn’t “prove” anything but it does strongly demonstrate some things.

I’d post her a link to this response, but as she said… “Blocked.”

Hope you enjoyed

Update:

She added to her original review.

His second link boils down to “I don’t hate women, I like to have sex with them!” along with some other seriously misguided and unfounded statements. It all reeks of narcissism and entitlement (notice he’s pretty big on “personal responsibility” when it comes to women getting raped, but not men getting into trouble when they fuck women with impunity.) Maybe he’ll get around to providing some citations or evidence beyond his own narrow personal experience? Probably not.

Well I’m pleased that she’s at least been exposed to my position, not that I expected her to truly challenge it, certainly not agree with it. As to what my “link boils down to” I think that’s a bit of an over simplification. But that statement is true, I don’t hate women and sex is generally enjoyable, but not so much that I would surrender the product of my labor for the rest of my natural life for the mere chance of getting it as regularly as I get my meals. Which is what is demanded of men these days. Even our hobbies are selected for us from a pre-approved list. But I digress..

seriously misguided and unfounded statements

Pick one, any one. I am aware that as I am making the claims the burden of proof is upon me. But I can’t be expected to prove everything I say as I say it else I’d never be able to stop typing. So, pick one you disagree with and lets discuss it. I made that offer before, to everyone. That’s why I know I’m right, none of you ever even tries.

notice he’s pretty big on “personal responsibility” when it comes to women getting raped, but not men getting into trouble when they fuck women with impunity.

I don’t know why you think that. Did I not say all actions have consequences? the catch in this context might be though that 99% of the negative consequences for men stem from the desires of women and the social system that enforces their will.

Once a man is married he is legally beholden to his wife in many ways. Women constantly shame men into marriage for this very reason. “fear of commitment” and the like, as if refusing to sign an exploitative contract is somehow a personal failing.

But excluding those, of course I expect equal responsibility. Here again however we run into a problem. “Responsibility” is one of those servitude words, like “cooperation” or “respect” used in schools as a euphemism for obedience. for example, “responsibility to your family” almost always means living up to a productive gender role and amounts to social shaming or scolding.

Maybe he’ll get around to providing some citations or evidence beyond his own narrow personal experience?

As I said, pick a claim, I’ll demonstrate it to the best if my ability. You can even suggest what sort of evidence you would prefer. I trust you’ll find my research skills, somewhat advanced.

My personal experiences are of course a factor in my views but they are hardly the sole source. Most of the problems I speak of I’ve avoided having to experience. You could call my life drama free, almost oppressively peaceful. Of course there are downsides, but they are related indirectly at best. Over all I sleep like a baby and have beautiful dreams. And while my health may not be the best in the world, I’m content.

My mission is to make myself feel good by aiding others in achieving what I have gained where their life lacks it, and to mimic others when they avoid a problem I can’t seem to get around.

I look forward to your reply.

Udpate:

Man blames women for social systems set up by men, for men, misogyny ensues. I’m done with this MRA. Get some critical thinking skills, read some feminist texts, then get back to us.

Those social system were set up by men who learned how to be men at the hands of women or at the hands of fathers approved by women, or am I to believe the majority of men came from single father households.

Women routinely pick the lowest of the low to breed with because they look good on the beach or they won the big game or they made the most money or they beat the piss out of that one guy and it made her feel “safe and protected.”

As I said, women control the family, and the family controls society. Most people these days are not the product of rape. So stop blaming men for the consequences of the choices women made.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

You made your bed, now lay in it.

P.S. I’ve read more than you have I’d wager.

Update:

Dude seems to have forgotten that marital rape and domestic abuse weren’t really crimes until recently, and that a man cheating on his wife used to be the accepted norm. He acts as though women have had free choice over who to marry for all time. Wow. I’ll call this the “overprivileged white guy effect”. Part of this effect is countering claims of misogyny with a post full of misogyny.

Wait, wait. I just read somewhere that you’re an “anarcho-capitalist”. All makes sense now. I’m gone for good with that fact-bomb.

Responses.

marital rape and domestic abuse weren’t really crimes until recently

And? There are a lot of places you could go with that, I’m not psychic. Make an argument and I’ll respond to it.

a man cheating on his wife used to be the accepted norm

So what? That is not the same as a lack of monogamy. Not by a long shot. For the duration of the united states men have been expected to marry one woman and have one family. Sure people “cheat” but as you noted its still called cheating. It was still ultimately against the rules.

Your logic would be like saying the entire legalize marijuana argument is rendered moot by the fact that you can pretty much get away with buying grass. It’s not that simple.

Lack of monogamy doesn’t merely mean a ‘license to cheat.’

He acts as though women have had free choice over who to marry for all time.

I’m aware of the pressure women have suffered historically. But given the nature of exponential population growth and the fact that people die, the recent past is a bit more important than the not so recent past in this context. More so when the primary age range of the women in question is typically between 15 and 30.

Forced or arranged marriage has never occurred at all in united states at all to my knowledge excepting immigrant communities bringing their culture with them, or the occasional “shotgun wedding,” which usually was force being applied to the male anyway. Certainly it has not occurred to a sociologically significant degree, but as always I’m open to new data should I be wrong on that point.

In short, even if your grandmother was oppressed. You aren’t.

I’ll call this the “overprivileged white guy effect”.

Well there is a bit of irony. Raise your hand if you follow amnesty international. If one of us is going to win the global perspective award, its not going to be you.

Part of this effect is countering claims of misogyny with a post full of misogyny.

Again, share a single instance of my so called misogyny. Yeah, thought not.

Is this what passes for persuasive argument in your life? You appear to have been humored for your entire life.

Wait, wait. I just read somewhere that you’re an “anarcho-capitalist”. All makes sense now.

There’s another debate I’m sure you’d be unable to participate in beyond baseless claims and name calling.

I’m gone for good with that fact-bomb.

Not that debating an Eloi isn’t satisfying on a purely sadistic or intellectual masturbatory level, but I hope you stay gone.

Talking to you is like debating religion on myspace or asking 4chan for relationship advice.

Thanks for…

Special eggs.

Giving me the good pieces.

Letting me ruin your tools.

Playing Vivaldi.

My first sword.

Showing me the value of honesty.

Making me a nerd before it was fashionable.

Sledding.

Proving by example that kindness is not weakness.

The Sergent family deformity.

Driving me everywhere.

Showing me how to work smart, not hard.

Not killing me when I zapped you in the back that time.

Saving mom from Denny.

Letting me grow up slowly.

Showing me how to shoot.

Connecting me to the world.

Having insulated pliers.

Teaching me loyalty by example.

Showing me that jokes don’t have to be funny for the listener.

Making learning fun.

The PVC robot arm.

Replacing Soundwave.

Showing me what willpower is.

Making toddlers crack up.

Peanut butter sandwiches.

Elderberry jelly.

Showing me how to start a conversation with anyone.

Never judging me.

Putting absolutely everything together.

Breaking the cycle.

The y chromosome that made me so tall.

Showing me how to fix anything.

Letting me “help.”

“Silly.”

Showing me that being a man does not mean being an asshole.

C.I.M.S.

Remembering what it was to be a boy.

Making me a Borg for Halloween that time.

Letting me buy both when I couldn’t decide which I wanted.

Diablo.

Showing me what real strength means.

Thanks for….

Bringing me cans of mountain dew when I was being a computer geek for days on end.

Keeping me alive by figuring out how to make broccoli awesome.

Not killing dad even when he really got on your nerves.

For putting up with me after it became clear I was going to very nearly be a clone of my dad.

Trying to play GI Joe.

Showing me that nothing is above being made fun of, not even GI Joes with dumb hair.

Showing me that its ok to get seriously pissed and throw crackers.

Putting up with my complete and utter distrust for the entire concept of medicine when I’m sick.

Having my back against the school system.

Teaching me compassion.

Showing me that my emotions matter.

Putting up with my ranting despite the fact that I’ve attacked virtually everything you believe.

Unblinding my bear.

Buying me a house.

Never suffering fools.

Making hunger a mystery for nearly a decade.

King for a day, day.

Monster spray.

Letting me get you a robot for mother’s day.

Showing me that forgetting is not the same as not caring.

Letting me stay in the pool till my hair turned weird colors.

Packman bologna.

Making those “Best mom in the world.” statues mean something.

Letting me stay up late enough to watch star trek for years on end.

Every time you answered to “MOOOOMMMM!”

Waking me up so I can sleep some more.

Letting me open another one early.

Cleaning my room when you wanted it clean instead of making me do it.

Making my casts tolerable.

Letting me ruin your camera.

Getting my knives back from the fascists.

Being the medic for every random friend I ever had.

Putting up with the string of weirdos I exposed you to.

Letting Papaw show me the guns.

The countdown calendar.

Making it ok to stand up to morons.

Hiding presents for me at random all over the house.

Teaching me optimism.

Providing proof that a mind can be open and strong simultaneously.

Giving me my very best trait, my ethics.

Showing me that I was not a possession or a pet to be trained.

Introducing me to the three best men on the face of the earth, your dad your brother and your husband.

Sorely testing my position that unconditional love is a myth.